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>Entrevista a Angelo Scola

'El no a los divorciados no es un castigo'

Paolo Rodari | 254 comentarios valoración: 3  76 votos
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Durante el Sínodo de la familia, el cardenal Angelo Scola, arzobispo de Milán, cuenta sus impresiones sobre la vida de la Iglesia un año y medio después de la elección del Papa Bergoglio.

Eminencia, a veces parece que a la Iglesia europea le cuesta comprender la novedad de Francisco. También en el Sínodo hay posiciones heterogéneas, ¿se podrán llegar a consensuar algunas conclusiones?

Estoy convencido de que sí. Antes del cónclave, los europeos expresamos un juicio claro sobre la vida de la Iglesia, hablando explícitamente de las escasas probabilidades de que fuera elegido un Papa europeo. Hoy tenemos un Papa cuya experiencia pastoral ha pasado por la dolorosa y profunda convivencia con la marginación, la pobreza, llegando a formular una teología y una cultura significativas para todos. Para nosotros europeos eso constituye una provocación que al principio puede ser incluso desestabilizadora, pero que si la hacemos nuestra, como nos pide la naturaleza comunional de la Iglesia, resulta absolutamente valiosa. Estamos avanzando en esta dirección y por ello el futuro está cargado de esperanza. Entre otras cosas, si bien es cierto que Europa está cansada, también es verdad que lo está porque desde hace siglos lleva sobre sus espaldas problemas muy complejos. La mens europea seguirá teniendo un fuerte peso en la construcción de una nueva civilización y un nuevo orden mundial.

Francisco quiere que el Sínodo sea ante todo una ocasión de confrontación, ¿qué le parece?

En la asamblea sinodal se está dando en acto una extraordinaria escucha recíproca. No existe ningún lugar en el mundo donde 250 personas procedentes de todos los países trabajen juntas así. La catolicidad de la Iglesia es palpable y es un espectáculo. Además, la praxis introducida en 2005 por Benedicto XVI de dejar al final de la jornada una hora de libre confrontación ha ido madurando. Todos tienen posibilidad de retomar la intervención de otro y decir “no he entendido esto, yo lo diría así, etc”. Verdaderamente es un crecimiento del ejercicio de la colegialidad.

El debate mediático pre-Sínodo se ha focalizado en el tema de la comunión a los divorciados vueltos a casar.

Pero el tema del acceso a la comunión sacramental de los divorciados vueltos a casar se inserta en la necesidad, sentida por todos, de referirse a la realidad completa de la familia, que tiene un valor inmenso para la Iglesia y para la sociedad. Tratamos de encontrar el camino adecuado y los lenguajes más comprensibles para comunicar la belleza de la propuesta cristiana ofrecida a todos. Además, en el debate han surgido otras situaciones complejas y difíciles. Por ejemplo, el tema de la poligamia ha tenido un gran peso tanto en las intervenciones de los padres africanos como asiáticos. De todos modos, ningún tema delicado, ni siquiera el de la homosexualidad, se ha acallado.

¿Qué piensa de la posibilidad de dar la comunión a los divorciados vueltos a casar?

He sido sucesor de Roncalli en Venecia y he podido ver algunos de sus apuntes que hablan de pastoral. Roncalli pone la pastoral en referencia directa a la historia y a la salvación. Es pastoral proponer a Jesús como cumplimiento y salvación de la persona concreta. Él es camino, verdad y vida para cada uno, sea cual sea la situación en que se encuentre. Personalmente, percibo la necesidad de que la idea de Roncalli se asuma más plenamente, reconociendo el nexo inseparable entre doctrina, pastoral y disciplina. Solo desde esta perspectiva unitaria podrá emerger una acción eclesial adecuada para los divorciados vueltos a casar. Es verdad que la eucaristía, en ciertas condiciones, tiene un componente de perdón de los pecados, pero también es cierto que no es un “sacramento de curación” en sentido propio. Además, la relación entre Cristo esposo y la Iglesia esposa no es para los esposos solo un modelo. Es mucho más: es el fundamento de su matrimonio. Pienso que el nexo entre eucaristía y matrimonio sigue siendo sustancial. Por tanto, aquellos que han contraído un nuevo matrimonio se encuentran en una condición que objetivamente no permite el acceso a la comunión sacramental. Lejos de ser un castigo, es la invitación a un camino. Estas personas están dentro de la Iglesia, participan activamente en la vida de la comunidad. Se podrán revisar algunas exclusiones: por ejemplo, su participación en el consejo pastoral o la posibilidad de enseñar en una escuela católica. Pero personalmente, desde el punto de vista sustancial, aún no he encontrado una respuesta a la posibilidad de que accedan a la comunión sacramental sin chocar de hecho con la indisolubilidad del matrimonio. En resumen, la indisolubilidad, o entra en lo concreto de la vida, o es una idea platónica. Debo añadir que muchos padres han pedido que se revise la modalidad de verificación de la nulidad del matrimonio, dando más peso al obispo. Yo mismo he hecho una propuesta en ese sentido.

En el Sínodo también se ha hablado del sufrimiento de las parejas homosexuales. ¿Cómo mira la Iglesia hoy a estas personas?

Está fuera de toda duda que somos lentos a la hora de asumir una mirada plenamente respetuosa con la dignidad y la igualdad de las personas homosexuales. Por lo que respecta a sus uniones, las palabras indican las cosas. No es justo suscitar, directa o indirectamente, confusión sobre algo tan decisivo como la familia. Considero que la palabra “familia”, junto a la palabra “matrimonio”, debe reservarse para una unión estable, abierta a la vida y entre hombre y mujer. Para la pareja homosexual habrá que encontrar otro término. También la cuestión de la filiación, sobre todo con la subrogación de la maternidad, abre un problema muy grave. Se corre el riesgo de dar al mundo hijos huérfanos con padres vivos.

¿Existe una nueva frescura en la Iglesia?

El Papa, con su particular estilo, que se une a nosotros llegando incluso media hora antes, que va a buscar a las personas al lugar en el que están, que viene a tomar café con nosotros, que saluda a los camareros, genera un clima nuevo. Ciertamente, la Iglesia se enfrenta a una gran prueba: la confrontación con la revolución sexual es un desafío quizás no menor que la revolución marxista. Partiendo de la autoevidencia del eros –el hombre entiende quién es en referencia a su ser situado en la diferencia sexual– debemos parangonarnos con visiones del hombre muy distintas. No basta una respuesta intelectual. Hay que regenerar desde abajo el pueblo de Dios, con una nueva educación en el amor, empezando desde la adolescencia, y con la conciencia de que la familia es el sujeto de la pastoral, y no el objeto. Nuestras parroquias, asociaciones y movimientos deben ser sobre todo moradas que muestran la belleza y la bondad del Evangelio, que entran en el necesario debate de una sociedad plural, con franqueza, apuntando al máximo reconocimiento posible.

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Qué entrevista tan pobre, la verdad. Total, para llegar a lo mismo de siempre: los divorciados no pueden comulgar "objetivamente", ¡hala!; y al matrimonio gay hay que llamarlo de otra forma "buscar otro término". Bueno, al menos hoy en nuestro país se le llama "matrimonio" legal y en el diccionario, que ya ha salido publicado el nuevo DRAE.

Para esto no hacía falta un cardenal, la verdad.

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Sandra, discrepo totalmente de tí.

Me parece que la entrevista es un juicio real sobre lo que es y lo que no es matrimonio. Si el matrimonio no tiene la nota de la diferencia hombre-mujer en cuanto que somos distintos, no iguales, entonces, la definición de la familia es la que impone la Ley que-no olvides- muchas veces la imponen grupos de presión.

Que la RAE lo ponga en el Diccionario no significa que sea ella la que tenga autoridad ontológica para definir la sustancia de las cosas. El matrimonio es entre dos personas de distinto sexo. Lo otro es otro tipo de relación, por mucho que una Ley lo diga. Esto no es discriminar a nadie, sino tratar de evitar que el colectivo LGTB (que, a mi juicio, no representan a los homosexuales) se apropie de lo que no es sino de la persona.
Lo siento, pero no puedo estar de acuerdo en que la Ley sea fuente para discernir el valor moral de un acto. Tampoco lo define el consenso. Que sea legal no significa que sea, en sustancia, matrimonio. Y no me vale que, en nombre de la religión, se han hecho crímenes horrendos, porque, por esa regla...en nombre de la Ley se está haciendo una ingeniería social más acorde al poder: destruir los elementos de cohesión (como la familia) para dejar al individuo solo frente a los intereses del Estado y/o del mercado...

Sí. Sí hace falta un cardenal y el mismo Papa para decir estas cosas.

Eso es lo que pienso. Si piensas que soy retrógrado o "facha", allá tú. Defender lo que dice Scola me parece razonable.

Lo dicho legal no significa legítimo o moralmente aceptable. Y no me vengáis con lo de "¿qué es lo razonable?" y de que "es tu percepción" y tal...porque, por esa regla de tres, no existiría ni la certeza de que tú misma, Sandra, existes. Hay cosas que no se pueden demostrar con un razonamiento...y no significa que sean irracionales.
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Tranquilo, en absoluto me ofendes por discrepar. Al contrario. Encantada de debatir. Eso sí, habría agradecido un nombre, aunque fuera ficticio, para poderme imaginar a alguien. Pero bueno, me imagino que tus motivos tendrás. En todo caso, partiendo de que el matrimonio es algo precristiano, un cardenal católico no tiene mayor autoridad que nadie en definir lo que es o deja de ser, así que aquí andamos los dos diciendo nuestras cosas.

Yo no creo que la RAE tenga autoridad para definir la “sustancia” de las cosas. Me temo que solo se hace eco de lo que ocurre, del uso que la gente hace de las palabras y el matrimonio, al menos en España, ya no solo es entre dos personas de mismo sexo. Y por eso incluye esa definición igual que habla de tuiter y yo puedo hablar de mi esposa y tú (suponiendo que seas anónimo y no anónima) podrías hablar de tu marido.

Me dices que la ley no hace la realidad, y estoy de acuerdo; y me dices que la ley no discierne el valor moral de un acto, y no solo estoy de acuerdo sino que son dos planos diferentes que no conviene equivocar; pero lo que no entiendo es por qué ante una misma realidad (por simplificar: dos personas que se quieren públicamente y quieren formalizar su unión con todas las consecuencias), a una podemos llamarla “matrimonio” y para otra hay que “encontrar otro término” (que, por cierto, su Eminencia no parece querer ni siquiera buscar, quizás porque no le interese, porque capacidad debe de tener). Hablas de la ontología y la sustancia (perdóname pero yo en esos términos soy un poco corta) pero no me explicas cuál es la sustancia o la ontología del matrimonio heterosexual que lo hace sustancial y ontológicamente diferente al matrimonio homosexual. Lo único que se me ocurre, por usar palabras que creo que dicen los curas, es ese eufemismo de la “apertura a la vida”, lo cual me parece tan reductivo, tan monotemático, que no creo que sea ese el argumento porque dejaría a tantos matrimonios heterosexuales fuera que me parecería cruel. Y entrar en el mito de Adán y Eva, costilla y manzana incluidas, me parece impropio de las palabras ontología y sustancia así que tampoco creo que sea la razón. Entonces, si un matrimonio homosexual es, si he entendido bien, inmoral debe de ser por otro motivo que, perdona lo corta que soy, se me escapa. No pretendo tampoco que me demuestres con un razonamiento la inmoralidad del matrimonio homosexual, pero al menos que me des alguna razón que pueda entender. Sobre todo porque me imagino que no creerás hacerme creer que esa moralidad que defiendes es irracional ¿verdad? Pues si es racional, deberá atender a razones que podrán darse. Digo yo.

Bueno creo que he sido muy educada y no he preguntado “qué es razonable”, ni he dicho “es tu percepción”, y por supuesto (faltaría más) no te he llamado “facha” ni retrógrado.

Te saludo cordialmente.
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