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>Entrevista a Juan Velarde

'Hemos crecido demasiado deprisa, por eso hay crisis intitucional'

Nico P. Gallo | 174 comentarios valoración: 3  28 votos
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El 63,8% de los españoles cree que el fraude es el principal problema del país, la corrupción según el Barometro del CIS. ¿Cree que esa preocupación está justificada? ¿Estamos peor que en otros momentos de la historia?

No, el problema de la corrupción es un problema evidentemente muy serio, porque la corrupción, además de ser mala desde el punto de vista moral, frena el desarrollo económico, y eso está estudiadísimo por los economistas. Por lo cual, atacar la corrupción es absolutamente necesario para que exista progreso económico. Conforme un país está más corrompido, el PIB de ese país va en peores condiciones, y eso ya está analizado, estudiado, hay gráficos de todo tipo, etc. De manera que es lógico que se odie la corrupción y que se pretenda que esa lacra se borre y desaparezca desde el punto de vista doble, moral por una parte porque es una inmoralidad, pero también desde el punto de vista material.

¿Cuáles son las consecuencias concretas de la corrupción en la economía española?

Como consecuencia de los problemas de la corrupción nos encontramos con que hay desequilibrios en la situación presupuestaria, forzosamente, hay desequilibrios que afectan a la eficacia del sistema productivo, porque el sistema productivo no se mueve entonces como consecuencia del mercado, de que esto es más caro o más barato, sino como consecuencia de que tal dirigente ha recibido tal cantidad de cosas, etc. Y eso es algo que frena el desarrollo económico, porque el desarrollo económico tiene que ser dentro de la libertad de mercado, quien mejor lo hace, pero en este caso no es quien mejor lo hace, sino quien hace más trampas, y eso evidentemente frena la actividad económica. Es muy grave.

El PP llegó al Gobierno en la época de Aznar como un soplo de aire fresco. Ahora algunos miembros del partido se han visto envueltos en estos escándalos de corrupción. ¿Qué ha pasado?

Yo, que soy asturiano, me he encontrado con que allí, que la administración es socialista, la corrupción desde Renedo, que los libros de texto y el material escolar pagaba una comisión para él y si no no había, hasta lo último del dirigente de Soma-UGT, etc. De pronto, un conjunto muy amplio de políticos de Asturias, Andalucía, pasando por Madrid y llegando por supuesto a Cataluña, cruzando hacia más abajo por Murcia, se ve que es una lacra que hay que borrar y raer de todas las maneras porque no está vinculada con un partido concreto, está vinculada con el talante de parte de la sociedad de la clase media española, que consideró que esto se podía hacer y que no ocurría nada, y es una cosa yo diría de ética colectiva. Hay que borrarlo del todo. Yo me acuerdo de un voto particular mío en el Tribunal de Cuentas cuando el asunto famoso del caso Matesa y todas esas historias… Eso hay que castigarlo con mano dura para que la gente proclive tenga miedo, no hay otra forma.

¿Hay también corrupción en el sistema empresarial o solo ha sido un fenómeno de las cajas?

Por supuesto, no son solo las cajas. Fue un error grande hacer que las cajas, que se movían en ámbitos locales, que conocían bien aquello, que los que las dirigían eran próceres locales que tenían aquello como un complemento y no había problemas en ellas. En el año 77, con la crisis bancaria, se consideró que las cajas estaban bien y que podían hacer como los bancos. En ese momento, como los bancos, que entren allí los sindicatos, los partidos políticos, etc, se vino abajo el sistema.

Hay quien dice que la transición económica, en la regulación de los sindicatos, de las organizaciones empresariales, no se hizo bien y que por eso nuestro sistema económico no es eficiente. ¿Es eso cierto?

Sindicatos habrá siempre, organizaciones empresariales habrá siempre, porque las hay en todos los países y surgen por sí mismas porque hay que asociarse. Lo que ocurre es que no hay que darles poder económico, en el sentido de que expongan sus problemas, planteen sus cuestiones, etc, pero no entren dentro de una agencia económica, que es lo que ocurrió con las cajas. No, en la gestión económica no. Ustedes pueden decir que quieren subir los salarios de tal manera, que el trabajo nocturno sea de esta forma, que haya facilidad de apertura o no de tiendas, etc. Eso es lo que le toca hacer a estas entidades. Pero entrar dentro de la administración económica, de ninguna manera. Y sin embargo se hizo, se dejó, se las colocó ahí, y eso se ha visto que era muy malo.

Víctor Pérez Díaz escribía hace unos días que los españoles no podemos escandalizarnos por lo que está sucediendo porque “somos nosotros quienes hemos estado eligiendo a nuestros políticos desde hace 40 años. Y por ello somos responsables de lo que han hecho”. ¿Está de acuerdo?

Matizando. Los españoles, como consecuencia de que España creció más rápidamente desde el año 60 al año 73 que cualquier país del mundo, salvo la excepción que son Singapur, Japón, Taiwán, Hong Kong… países asiáticos que crecieron más aprisa. Del resto de los países del mundo, incluyendo EE.UU, el crecimiento español fue muchísimo más rápido. Y la población española pasó a creer que era fácil conseguir ese avance económico, y como consecuencia pasó a pensar que cualquiera podía dirigir las cuestiones de economía, porque era muy fácil. Como consecuencia de eso, no hubo conciencia colectiva de buscar a aquellos que realmente eran los más capaces para que las cuestiones económicos se llevasen adecuadamente adelante. Esa es la matización que hago. Crecimos demasiado deprisa y eso hizo que creyésemos que todo era muy fácil. Pensábamos que eso iba por sí mismo, y no iba por sí mismo.

¿Por qué se ha producido una separación entre la vida institucional y la vida social?

En parte, como consecuencia de que cuando, muy rápidamente –eso está muy estudiando por los economistas–, se enriquece una sociedad inmediatamente pasa a ser una entidad que educa mal a la generación siguiente. Esto ya lo dijo Keynes en una conferencia que dio en Madrid en el año 1930 sobre la economía política de nuestros nietos, que iba a haber una masificación grande, que los valores iban a quedar a un lado, que eso de ser honrado, trabajador, preocuparse por el futuro de los hijos, etc, todo eso se iba a diluir extraordinariamente como consecuencia del enriquecimiento. El enriquecimiento rápido es un problema muy serio, y eso es lo que nos ha pasado.

¿Cómo se puede conseguir una regeneración?

No hay más remedio para esta regeneración, a mi juicio, que por lo que se refiere a los castigos ser muy severo, y por otra parte, también como consecuencia, que toda una serie de entidades que son capaces de propagar la moral pasen a actuar con mucha contundencia, de tal manera que pase a ser mal visto el ser un sinvergüenza. En parte, esto se debió a que estos valores estaban mucho en la sociedad rural española, pero al terminar la agricultura tradicional pasan a las ciudades y en las ciudades eso se disuelve, y a causa de ello entidades como la Iglesia, grupos sociales importantes, culturales, etc, tienen que estar de manera continua actuando, diciendo que esto es muy grave y que hay que ir con la cabeza muy levantada, en el sentido de que es malo, horriblemente malo y despectivo, que desprecie la sociedad estas cosas. Eso es educar a la sociedad, y empieza en la escuela. En la escuela hay que empezar a enseñar esto. Los niños tienen que aprender lo que es realmente repulsivo y que hay que dejar a un lado. Sin eso estamos perdidos.

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